All things Torey Hayden

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AdelaideDupont
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All things Torey Hayden

Post by AdelaideDupont »

Hi Matthias!

You make some great software.

And also I know you're a big fan of Torey Hayden. You've shared your strong feelings on the board.

I know you've enjoyed Ghost Girl in particular so much. Me too. I did wonder about Harriman and the reasons for her suicide. It's a sad and confusing story I think, and they should put the epilogue at the start, as well as information about what selective mutism is.

Did you read Twilight Children or have you that to look forward to, as we do in Australia?
madshi
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Post by madshi »

Hey hey... :)

I really didn't expect anyone to make a connection between my posts on Torey's forum and me. How did you know it was me posting there? :)

Personally, I didn't find Ghost Girl too confusing. I think I believed Jadie from the beginning. But I agree, it's a very sad and shocking story, especially because it's no fiction, but really happened. I can for the life of me not understand how some people can do such things to little girls... :(

I've not read Twilight Children yet. To be honest, I think I prefer stories which center around one specific girl only (like Sheila, Ghost Girl and Beautiful Girl). So I've not decided yet whether I'll read Twilight Children. However, I liked the 4 books I've read so far so much, that probably I'll buy them all sooner or later.

Did you read the 2 Sheila books yet? Those are my favourites. I've read Sheila for the first time more than 10 years ago. I had even done a presentation of the book in high school back then, because I liked it so much.
AdelaideDupont
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Post by AdelaideDupont »

Matthas, I'm well accustomed to finding Toreyites and exToreyites wherever their web abodes may be.

Haven't read the Sheila books, but I did read The tigers' child and enjoyed it. :D I haven't read One Child, which is the one everyone raves about and they say it turned them on to Torey Hayden.

My own faves are Beautiful Child and also Somebody Else's Kids.

After the interviews, I am so pumped up about Twilight Children and I may have it in book and audio copy by the end of March.

Matthas, you put your link to your site, and I followed it. What could be more simple.

Yes, Ghost Girl ... how could humans do these things to other humans? I think Jadie was/is very bright and strong.

Did you read Just another kid? I so want to. I want to meet Lad and Leslie and Dirkie and all the others who are but names to me.
madshi
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Post by madshi »

AdelaideDupont wrote:After the interviews, I am so pumped up about Twilight Children and I may have it in book and audio copy by the end of March.
What interviews do you mean?
AdelaideDupont wrote:Yes, Ghost Girl ... how could humans do these things to other humans? I think Jadie was/is very bright and strong.
Yes, I definitely agree. I was a bit confused why Torey first thought Jadie might be brain damaged. To me Jadie felt too intelligent for that.
AdelaideDupont wrote:Did you read Just another kid? I so want to. I want to meet Lad and Leslie and Dirkie and all the others who are but names to me.
No, haven't read that one yet.
AdelaideDupont
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Post by AdelaideDupont »

Matthias, brain damage does not preclude intelligence in any sense of the word.

Here are the interviews to which I refer:
http://www.torey-hayden.com/cgi-local/u ... 0;t=000028
madshi
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Post by madshi »

AdelaideDupont wrote:brain damage does not preclude intelligence in any sense of the word.
Hmmmm... Didn't know that... I thought brain damaged children must have a low IQ.
AdelaideDupont wrote:Here are the interviews to which I refer:
http://www.torey-hayden.com/cgi-local/u ... 0;t=000028
Thanks - good link, will go reading now... :)
AdelaideDupont
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Brain damage/injuries and intelligence

Post by AdelaideDupont »

I have acquired brain injury, yet I am of normal intelligence, but my verbal IQ is 30 points over my performance IQ (112/84 respectively).

And it does depend on what part the brain is injured, and to what degree. If it was injured during a sensitive period of development like in infancy or teenagerhood, then maybe someone might have a low measured IQ (that is to say below 70, in both verbal and performance).

Remember that these people may not find it easy to communicate in the way the testers expect. Particularly if they may be selective mute (or have selective mutism, is really what I should say). In that case they may take alternative assessments to show how smart or stupid they might be.

I wonder what sort of experience you have with many people with disabilities, particularly those people with brain injuries? Do feel free to tell me all about it.

Also comas may very much feature (see the Glasgow Scale if you can get it). If a person is not conscious, then how may she be intelligent? Yet she may blink her eyes with intentionality. And also the sense of agency is important too.

Enjoy the interviews, Matthias, and I hope you have learnt a lot about this area.

Here is a link which will clear these cobwebs out of your own brain and put in understanding and compassion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_damage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_brain_injury
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurocognitive_deficit (I have neurocognitive deficits in picture completion and also the puzzle test on the Weschler).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuropsychology (also read the books of Oliver Sacks to be better informed in this field).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilita ... chology%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_neuropsychology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_neuropsychology
and last of all http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drowning .
And of course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_%28trait%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EQ (Lori from Somebody Else's Kids had a healthy helping of this which overrode any difficulties she might have had, particularly with her reading).

Also you can search for these concepts in any good psychiatry or psychology book. I do hope that I have not overwhelmed you; if so I take full responsibility. You must take full responsibility and ownership for whatever you learn.
madshi
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Post by madshi »

I've no experience at all with people with disabilities or brain injuries. So this is a whole unknown world to me.

What you say makes a lot of sense. If someone can not speak (for whatever reason) or refuses to do so, that doesn't mean he has no intelligence. I've just yesterday watched a TV report about Stephen Hawking. He can't talk, anymore, but his intelligence is out of this world, I guess.

Thanks for the links, I'll have a read, although I'm not sure how much I will understand, because I've no real knowledge in this area.
AdelaideDupont
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Post by AdelaideDupont »

Stephen Hawking is a legend, isn't he?

When you have no knowledge, you have no prejudices.

Happy reading!

Then how did you get attracted to Torey's books?
madshi
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Post by madshi »

My parents had these "Reader's Digest" books. A slightly cut version of "One Child" was in one of those. Many years later I bought the uncut version and then found out there were more books. Just some weeks/months ago I bought some of those books in English (originally I was reading the German version). I've found that especially "One Child" reads better in English, cause the strange dialect Sheila is using makes much more sense in the original language.
AdelaideDupont
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Post by AdelaideDupont »

It would be strange to hear 'haben' and 'sein' used in the way that Sheila was using it. Or maybe not so, because it is already built into Standard German. Sometimes. I need a better explanation of how the verb rules work, and what better opportunity than to update my heuristic with a native speaker?

Any similar German dialects you know of? I mean - any dialects with similar patterns to Sheila's speech patterns that you could map her behaviour onto?
madshi
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Post by madshi »

There's no German dialect that works anything like that.

However, this pattern of speaking sounds a bit like Japan or Chinese people trying to speak German... :D

So I think because of this it was very hard for the English->German translator to do a good translation. Well, the translation was not really bad. But I just found the English original better.
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